We share some of the success stories from Celebrating Small Business Awards 2023, talking to the winners of the Startup Business of the Year, Exporter of the Year and Self Employed /Freelancer of the Year Awards to find out how they achieved success. And we ask them what they would like to see in the future to help Small Businesses in the UK.
Featuring:
Chris Garland,
Founder of Chris Garland Training
Julianne Ponan MBE,
Founder of Creative Nature
David Griffiths,
Director and Founder of ABERDAM
Episode transcript:
Jon Watkins Welcome to this latest edition of the FSB podcast, the go-to podcast for news, tips and important information for small businesses and the self employed. This month we're going to share some success stories from a few of the winners at this year's Celebrating Small Business Awards 2023, which brings together and celebrates all sorts of different small businesses from across the UK with very different stories. Today we have with us, Dave Griffiths, who is director of Aberdam, a Dutch fries business in Scotland; Chris Garland, who is from Chris Garland Training, and Julianne Ponan, who is the founder of Creative Nature. Welcome to all of you. Good to have you here. I'm going to kick off by asking each of you just to tell us a little bit about who you are and about your small businesses if I can. Who wants to kick us off with that?
Julianne Ponan Sure, I'm happy to go first. I am Julianne Ponan. I am the founder and CEO of Creative Nature. We specialise in top 14 allergen-free food. So we do baking mixes, snacks. We've also got super foods, and they cater for anyone with an allergy to like; gluten free, dairy free, nut free. And we export to around 18 countries now.
Jon Watkins Great stuff. Chris, welcome. Say a bit about your business.
Chris Garland Yeah, thanks for having us. So my name is Chris. I run Chris Garland training. It's a multi award winning - now - medical and safety training business. We're based in Cheshire, but we have clients across the entire country. So if you've got some sort of manager training that you need to learn, we're the people to come to.
Jon Watkins Great stuff, and Dave, tell us a bit about about Amsterdam, if you will, and how it started.
David Griffiths My name is David Griffiths. I'm the co director of Aberdam Dutch fries, and Aberdam is a premium street food brand, which is a fusion of the Aberdeen and Amsterdam street food scenes. So with Aberdeen, we focus on Aberdeen Angus smash burgers, and Amsterdam will focus on Dutch style fries. So triple cooked fries, with various important sauces directly from Amsterdam, such as kind of Dutch fruit sauce or Dutch satay.
Jon Watkins Thanks very much. It's really interesting. Julianne, I'll come back to you, can just tell us a bit about the award that you picked up. And what the judges said about why you were the worthy winner as it were.
Julianne Ponan Yeah, so we won Exporter of the Year. And honestly, we couldn't believe it at all. To even get to the national UK Finals was incredible. And there were so many fantastic businesses in our category as well. I think the judges said I can't even remember what they said on the day to be completely honest, we were a bit sort of in shock. But in terms of the one of the sponsors that said to us afterwards, he said that we couldn't believe how much we had achieved in such a small amount of time, which I found quite amazing to hear. And the team has been really excited about the win as well.
Jon Watkins Brilliant. And Chris, I think you've picked up Freelancer of the year. Is that right? Tell us a little bit about about that.
Chris Garland Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So it was the self employed and freelance for the year award. So when the regional award was just genuinely amazing, it really was identifying that you're then put into the pot for the national awards and then scooped out as well as just being complete, completely blown me away. I mean, it's just a one man band effectively. I've got other people working, bringing them in every now and then but essentially all down to me. So to win both regional award and a national award yourself, if you're amazing. It really is.
Jon Watkins Yeah, that is great. And we're going to talk a little bit about your individual businesses in a bit more detail. Chris is interested in how you've scaled to be able to run multiple sessions sort of side by side and at the same time, and our guess that's taking you away from being seen as a bit of an individual freelance and more of a sort of consultancy business. I guess we'll we'll get to that in a bit. Before we do, Dave, can you just tell us a bit about your your success and your accolade as the startup business of the year and how you guys have secured that at a time when it's pretty difficult to be setting up new businesses?
David Griffiths Yeah, we won the UK startup business of the year. and which was phenomenal. Everything took us quite by surprise, to be honest, we were quite surprised at the Scottish one. The UK one, we were both sitting there absolutely stunned. Because, yeah, there was, obviously a lot of amazing businesses that we were going up against. So, yeah, absolutely phenomenal. We're really, really chuffed.
Jon Watkins That's brilliant. And can you just tell me a little bit about, you know, what it means to each of you to win an award like this? Why are accolades like this important? And how do they help your businesses? And how do they help you as, as individuals who has a view on that for us?
Chris Garland So winning the award. I mean, it's like any business you think you're doing the best that you can, actually getting an award is real recognition from somebody else. You know, it's great having your clients giving you fantastic feedback, loving what you do, but actually having other people, non clients, saying, you know, you are potentially the best around you are that good. You deserve an actual pat on the back from an organisation such as the FSB, it's a huge, huge thumbs up. It makes a massive difference to the team, yourself, everyone involved in the award in the business. It makes a massive difference to the way that you feel about what you're doing. Gives you a massive spring in your step.
Jon Watkins Yeah, nice. Julianne, similar feeling, what does it mean to you to win the award?
Julianne Ponan Yeah, I think it's sort of in a way, I get impostor syndrome a lot of the time, and it doesn't really feel real, if I'm completely honest. But yeah, I think it's all about when you're running your business everyday and your small business, you wear so many hats within the business. And also you don't really look back. There's, there's so many times in the day, you're sort of just literally fighting fires, new things, new challenges come up, new opportunities, and you're constantly dealing with them. And then to win an award and look back, especially with the team as well, it's such a fantastic, like morale boost. But not only the morale boost, it was the FSB does a lot for small businesses. And I remember joining right at the beginning, when I was literally it was just me, and one other person, and we used the legal helpline, and it was fantastic, and then to be entered into the awards. It's like a journey that you go on with the FSB. And as you get bigger and bigger, they support you more and more.
Jon Watkins Yeah, Dave, you're nodding away at that, and you're at the start of your journey, or quite early in your journey. Given that you're, you're a start up, is it important for you to win awards like this as well?
David Griffiths Yeah, I mean, in a couple of ways, to be honest. I mean, first of all, it's, I think me and Mike are quite guilty of ever stopping and really patting each other on the back ourselves. To be honest, we're quite, we're just always looking for the next thing, but for actual entire team is, it's incredible. It sends it just sends a wave of kind of positivity. And through, we've got a really, really strong kind of team culture, which we're blessed to have. And yeah, I mean, straight afterwards, we just decided where we're closing up the Monday in both locations, getting all the Glasgow guys up to Aberdeen, and just spoiling them over the big kind of team day, team awards, team party and, and just really given them that kind of pat on the back for everything that they've contributed. So there's that aspect, but there's also the aspects in terms of getting UK wide recognition for what we've done is so invaluable going forward, especially as we look to continue to grow. It really is kind of the cherry on top of the cake in terms of showing people that we're really on a good path here and that we've we've got something special that they that's kind of been recognised at a national level that they should really want to get involved in. So as we do look to kind of grow and put the feelers out for growth across the country, then this will really really aid that. So there's those those are the two kind of main aspects that that make it mean so much to us.
Jon Watkins Amazing. Thanks very much. I want to talk to each of you individually now about your own businesses, your specific businesses. Dave, you launched Aberdan Dutch fries out of an outdoor street food events to help local street food traders who had suffered financial losses during lockdown and Covid. And I've seen turnover surged to more than a million pounds in just a couple of years. Tell us about how you launched it and how you funded the launch of the business.
David Griffiths Aberdan began as a small, kind of quickly whipped together street food stall at a summer event that we were actually co-founding coming out of the back of Covid in April 2021. So we wanted to kind of put the feelers out for a larger project that we were looking to do in the city, which has developed into Resident X which is a street food hall and cocktail bar in the city centre that's currently operating. And in the early stages of that, we were looking at either that type of model or a potential Container Park to try and offer a kind of a springboard to give the city a bit of regeneration from our own food and beverage experience in terms of trying to fill the empty shop units on Union Street and other streets around by giving a platform to food businesses, whether that was small startups or whether that was larger businesses that may choose to expand into Edinburgh and Glasgow first. So the street food market was called the Backyard Beach Collective. And we partnered with the local beach amusement park and use one of their car parks, and we utilise their wooden street food huts that they would typically use for like the Christmas markets and things. And we put eight street food vendors down there, and they operate at the bar. And in doing that, and trying to find street food vendors, a lot of them weren't back-up trading, doing events again, because they either unfortunately been kind of closed, packed up operations, gone back to normal, like kind of nine to five jobs to pay the bills. Or it was a case of trying to tempt them back into kind of doing external events from their kind of takeaway and delivery premises again. So we managed to do that. But we had one unit remaining. And we had just a kind of an idea one night when me and my co director Michael, were kind of sitting and chatting about it, and it was two weeks to go. And we thought, why don't we put our own small little unit in so that we can try and generate some income for ourselves to help towards this bigger project? Rather than just kind of like renting out the spaces because we were doing it incredibly low rent to try and help these food traders, a lot of which were our friends try and get back on their feet and get kind of get some events kind of on the go again after Covid. So we had kind of a little reminisce about we'd both been to Amsterdam quite a few times, on holidays over the years. And the fries stalls you get out there with the kind of different Dutch toppings like Dutch mayonnaise and Dutch satay sauce and things like that, that really stuck out there - stood out for us. And it was kind of one of those things where the the concept just kind of jumped out. And you know, we just went for it, it was two weeks of kind of madness, just whipping this kind of concept together, there was not no more planning than that. We My background is heavily in kind of restaurant management and marketing. And I'd had a small kind of startup Cafe before that was in the old Aberdeen indoor market that that was closed and demolished after Covid. So I was looking for my next challenge to and I'd kind of tried my hand at freelance design and marketing to kind of survive the lockdown period. So luckily, I think that from that point of view, we'd kind of kind of been forced to kind of self teach all of the branding element to help us quickly whip up a logo whip up some branding, like its own recognisable font, and I could at least have the nouse to to keep it all very consistent and give it the foundations and it's much the same. It's kind of really unchanged. Like that branding has kind of lasted, thankfully, which is a good sign. We've adapted slightly but yeah, we popped up in one of the huts, we put five grand on my credit card for the first kind of like bits of equipment, and borrowed two fryers from the amusement park and pitched up and one of the huts. And I think three out that five grand was on a pallet of fries to get shipped over originally from Amsterdam, which we hadn't actually tried yet. We just took it in good faith that they were the real deal. And, and yeah, and we just got going. So it was a pretty, pretty quick journey from inception to just launch and there was no fancy business plans or pitching for funding or anything like that. But I think actually, it's kind of made it a better story. And it's kind of that's why I said up on the stage when we did win the award that I think that is one of the kind of the true genuine kind of startup success stories because it's come from just a couple of weeks and just full on just trying to do what we could to scrape together a new concept.
Jon Watkins Chris, a big part of your story that we alluded to the beginning of the podcast was around how you sort of scaled from a you know what you called a one man band to a a bit of a bigger operation that offers multiple training courses runs side by side and at different locations. So it has been how you've done that how you've gone from this sort of one man band to a to a proper in inverted commas consultancy business.
Chris Garland So yeah, exactly as you say. The business originally I set it up it was just me. I went out there specifically to go and teach everything that I could already go and teach, with a view to learning how to go and teach a whole raft of other courses. And then again, the business plan was always been grow the business so that I could then step away from being the first point of call, and also being the one who is doing the admin and the invoicing, and also do the training, to then bring in other trainers who are potentially, well not potentially, definitely better at it than I am! You know, I'm bringing in people who are absolute experts in the field, so that the business can then offer to my clients the very best training. Again, you know, I keep on top of my CPD and stuff, so I'm making sure that I'm still upping my game. So when I'm going out there, I'm running courses as well. But still, the clients are still getting the very best training, and obviously from that, and then driving forward the business. So we actually provide them the very best in all sorts of training avenues, or whichever course you come on, you will always get the very best from us. I've got now got a bank of freelance trainers across the country. And that enables me to, for example, run a training course, in Canada, for example, I'm based in Cheshire, but I've got a trainer who's based down in Kent. I've got trainers who cover the whole country as I do, because there are some courses that only us can actually teach. Because they are such specialist courses. But yeah, growing the business, it's all about getting extra people in because as many people say, to grow a business, you have to realise that the problem with the business is actually you. There's only so much you can do. You can't do everything else. And at some point you need to sleep or eat, or go and spend time with your family. So growing the business, massively important thing.
Jon Watkins Yeah. What are some of the challenges with that, Chris? I mean, is it difficult to give yourself the time and space to go off and focus on building that strategy when you know, you're taking yourself away from time when you could be earning money as an individual? Is that a challenge? And how do you, you know, make the decision to go ahead and do that, i.e. turn off the day to day a little bit so you can focus on the longer term plan? And have you faced other challenges, you know, perhaps around? I don't know, maybe recruiting and ensuring that the people you're bringing in are at the right quality and standard? Is that been difficult?
Chris Garland Yeah, absolutely. I always regard quality and standards. We've all been on those courses where you sit in the class and you think, Oh, God, what am I doing here? Either, because the way the course is running is just sucking the life out of you. Or because you actually know more than the instructor does. Which is just painful to be fair. So yeah, you know, going out there and checking your, your people you're bringing on board and making sure that they are the very best that they can be, again, making sure that they are up to date with their skills. I mean, I do around about 20 hours of CPD a week. Just try to keep up on constantly, whenever I'm driving anywhere, I've got podcasts in the background, and walking the dog I'm listening to a podcast, I'm always trying to get more information and more knowledge is an essential thing I expected people who are working for me to share, you tend to find who are the ones who are the good ones. And they're the ones you keep in touch with you have your little black book of instructors, as it were, of people who you actually want to bring in. With regards to growing the business and finding time to do it, you're dead right - the only way to do it is putting in the diary. So I have one day a week as a minimum, which is my office day. So I'm not going through the admin and might do an invoicing and might be doing all different sorts of things. But having time in your diary, actually blocking it out specifically to sit down, turn the phone off, get away from everything else. And just plan just think about what you're gonna do. As a self employed person, you're right, you could be out there raising money. But you won't grow a business you got to spend time to allocate the time to actually drive the business forward and think about where you're going to go next.
David Griffiths I think the main way which you've managed to scale it so quickly, is obviously down to the support of all the customers we've had. Since since the beginning at that card. I mean, from initial opening, obviously, we did a little kind of week and a half sort of kind of teaser period of kind of promotions like setting up social media pages and things like that. And luckily through the work I'd kind of kind of done previously with that café and the marketplace and through my kind of personal freelance kind of marketing work during lockdown period. We did have a bit of reach online there initially and support to kind of help get the word out. But really, we couldn't believe that kind of two guys popped up in a little wooden hut down the beach with a couple of borrowed fryers. And instantly it was there was queues, like around the block. And obviously being still kind of COVID restriction time, the event was very much like you had to book to go, you could only queue so many people at the stall. And so it did actually cause issues with them, we had to have a separate queue outside the entrance to the, to the food, to the kind of to backyard and one queue for a kind of general entry. And they'd have people queuing up to queue asking if they were there for AvoDerm and then put them in a separate queue to enter just to go to our stalls, it was pretty surreal. And it really just kind of set the tone for, for how we went on the kind of main thing that that really propelled us, I think was early on, we'd come up with a kind of a first special, which was pink garlic mayonnaise. And obviously, it was kind of coming into summer and the end of April start of May. So I kind of developed pink garlic mayonnaise, and put it on the menu. And it was Yeah, bright pink mayonnaise all over cones of fries, and then little edible flowers on top. So probably the only person brave enough to put edible flowers on portions of chips at the time. But it absolutely flew in it just that's what really took off. And that just created such a stir on social media and it was just right place right time. And that's normally what we find it comes everything comes down to its its timing and location and the two kind of key things. And we've learned that with other stuff we've done and it's and that was definitely very very, in Amsterdam's favour. And it's early days, and it really just allowed us to kick on and me and Michael were in, in the prime fries every single day running like to get stock, and we didn't have regular stockists or anything else. So we just had to just build as we went. So as we ordered that pallet fries, we had to find somewhere to keep them. So we had to set up a deal with a local supplier that had a large freezer warehouse to get them to take them in and store them. And then we could go and pick them up from there every afternoon before we started trading, things like that. We just had to constantly create solutions as we went along the way, and I think that's been a good as well, part of the key and how we've managed to scale it is we've just constantly not only work day and night, quite literally doing every single part of the business ourselves. But we've we've always approached it me I'm Michael from a very solutions, not problems point of view, like everything is a challenge to overcome. And we've just taken everything that's thrown at us and just found the best possible solution and just continue to grow. We also from the early days, we were obviously at that market, but we knew very early on that that would only last until perhaps end of August start of September, because it was an outdoor summer street food market. So we luckily didn't get to kind of caught up in the the kind of hype if you like, if it going so well. We focus very quickly on how can we streamline this make it make it better get staff to come in, and try and take ourselves out of it. So that we can work on finding a space to continue post and kind of September? And how will it continue because we can't sell cones and boxes of fries with sauce and seasoning and come that point. And that's a very kind of niche, like if you're at a street food market. And it worked really well for us, because people would go to all the seven other stalls that were making sushi or tacos or pizza or whatever else. And whereas they might have a small percentage of the market in terms of what people are eating, we found that they would all inadvertently, we didn't mean to but they would all come and get a portion of chips as well, which was brilliant. So we actually kind of had 100% scope of the market that were coming through the door. And so it worked really really well from that point of view too. But we knew if say we did decide to take it on a delivery platform or serve it in a premises then there's not the footfall and Aberdeen to do that. So we quickly focused on the next point, which was look ahead look to August and September and it might be great now but how can we make it better and how can we adapt and change it and keep that momentum going in a new direction. And I think that was one of the key things that we did early on was really not get caught up in it was work around the clock to keep it going keep the momentum up, keep improving it but really getting that getting a team in place to run it so that we could then start to focus on how we can prolong it and how we can not let it just be a flash in the pan summer concept and that's kind of rang true to even when we did find the location on ship row, opened up there and then did smash burgers and loaded fries. and sides and went on Deliveroo and had the sit in location and we've still gone. But how can we make it better? And how can we? How can we be like six months ahead of ourselves? Where do we want to take it? And as we've kind of gone on, now, we're looking five years ahead. And we're saying, right, this is what we want, how do we get there? So for us, we would absolutely love to, to build it into a really big success story and to make it something that's franchisable. So how do we get there? Well, it's now it's very much focused on systems and how do we get the systems in place to, to mean that someone can come in and carbon, copy it, and put it in another location and continue to grow, and the foundations that we've built. So it's kind of always been that way since the beginning. And we're just, we always just feel like we're riding a wave, because we've still not. So external investment, we've had lots of lots of offers and lots of interest, which is all very flattering, and really kind. But ultimately, we never wanted to kind of let someone control our destiny, especially while it's going well. So me and Michael have, have taken the bare minimum out of it. Since up until now. Like we've really taken absolutely nothing out of the business and put it all back in. So we've invested in two locations, the permanent one on ship Pro and Aberdeen, the one in Glasgow, all those fit outs the food truck that we've got. And we've actually just got a second food truck as well. They're all from reinvesting everything we've made back into the business. And yeah, I mean, it's I think it's a testament to how strong the businesses performed really, that we actually are able to do that in the times we're in because we've felt the pinch as much as anyone it's really, really tough the margins are, we're trying to get the margins up to a, again, like a franchisable level. So there's a portion for us and a portion for the franchisee, and they're just constantly getting stripped back and stripped back and stripped back. But in spite of that, thankfully. And again, I go back to the first kind of point A call in terms of how we've managed to scale which is our customers, people believe in us. And they they've seen the journey we're on. And I think that they've kind of seen that. It's a genuine story. And it's it's not for, for greed nor money. It's a it's a story that's people wanting to help improve the city, they want to be a success story and that want to give back as well, ultimately. And luckily, their support in such volume has enabled us to keep reinvesting and keep growing. And yeah, that's really been how we've achieved what we have in the two years.
Jon Watkins Julianne, you're the export of the year and your business as a really interesting business model. In terms of exporting, can you talk us through that? And how you came up with it and whether others could could work in that way?
Julianne Ponan Yeah, sure. We work really, I guess we're at like a small business we pivoted when Brexit happened. We used to want to trade a lot with European countries as they were our neighbours. And it was really easy to be able to hop on a plane and talk to people. However, the red tape with that is absolutely crazy. And the amount of resource that you need to be able to versus reward is just too much for small business. So what we decided to do was actually focus on countries further afield. We work with the Middle East. So we're in Dubai, Qatar, Kuwait, Oman, and that market has really, really flourished for us. And we are a premium product as well. So it's about researching what markets you want to go into not just taking the scattergun approach, which is what we did very early on. However, with DBT, the Department of Business and trade you get a international trade adviser assigned to you and any small business can have this, which is a free resource, which you really should capitalise on and utilise in terms of their time. Their advice, you can sit down and make an action plan of which countries you'd like to go into. So we are very specific of the areas we really see our product fitting and sometimes yes, we have been wrong. For example, I still see Scandinavia is such a fantastic outlet for us. However, we just haven't managed to crack that market. Whereas think places like the Middle East, we've done really, really well in So yeah, that's my two cents.
Jon Watkins Yeah, it's really interesting, this sort of view that, you know, exporting is difficult and full of red tape, you know, particularly after Brexit. I know you mentioned they're the sort of government help and advice which is really interesting for others thinking of doing the same. But is it difficult? Or is it easier than most businesses feel it is?
Julianne Ponan I think that the UK is quite a competitive market. And it is quite difficult here. We find it at the moment over the last couple of years, it has been tough. However, your product, well, for example, our product is an ambient product. And I do believe services as well, are very easily exportable. So I think it's just finding that right market and, and actually doing the research behind it. I don't think that it's, I don't think it's as hard as people make it out to be, in fact, we've had export turnover a lot quicker than launching into a UK supermarket, for example. And we've launched in places like Iceland very, very quickly and had repeat orders. It's all about finding the right partner, I would say, for example, you can get distributors, you can get agents, but actually, what is it? What is it that your business needs. And for us, it was distributors, we specifically wanted them to be able to take ownership of the goods or ownership of the services. And that's the difference between that and an agent where they just go out and find your business. And then they take a commission off the back of it. So I think you really need to understand the differences between that. And then once you have partnering with the with the right people it becomes a lot easier because we put that criteria in place. And don't budge from that; say that these are the type of people we want to go after. And they've got to align with your business vision, your strategy. So for example, with us, we made it really clear what markets we'd like to go into and whether we'd want to go into independents or supermarkets, and that partner needed to align with us. Also, it's really important when you're finding the right partner. They don't have to be the biggest company in the world. And they don't have to have distribution routes all across the US, for example, working with a smaller company that has already had traction with UK brands. And you'd sit alongside a set that works very well and is complimentary to you. Actually, that might be more beneficial, because they'll spend more time on your business. I think it's all about that weighing up and making the right decision and not just jumping into bed with anyone because at the end of the day, you're going to be in there for the long haul. And that partnership really has to work. So when things are going wrong, you want that partnership to be really, really strong.
Jon Watkins Yeah, brilliant. And it's just, you know, same question to you really what's next for the business? And how do you continue to grow from here?
Julianne Ponan We have a lot of different plans over the next sort of couple of years actually. And after receiving an MBE in the King's New Year's Honours, we decided to launch a campaign that was specifically to raise awareness for allergies in schools, as there's a lot of bullying, a lot of anxiety. I know, personally, I grew up where I used to have to sit on what was called the allergy table. And it was just me alone segregated. And I don't think that is great for people with allergies. So what we've done is we've done a free allergy assembly course, for people and for children to have. And we started off by training around 3,000 children - now it's completely blown up and we've already reached 105,000 children. They want it in after school clubs. We've got it on teacher portals, and yet it's just continuing and growing. And I'm hoping that this will then enhance the shopping experience as well because we're going to groceries and saying look you're Freefrom sections are not Freefrom anymore. All they are is the gluten-free aisle or the dairy-free lifestyle aisle and actually, nut allergies, soya allergies, dairy allergies, they're all getting a lot more prevalent as now one in 12 children have them. So if we can get a more inclusive shopping environment, a Freeform area that is actually Freefrom and growing the business outside just the UK. I think those are our main goals at the moment.
Jon Watkins Sounds exciting and and a really good story. Just before you leave us each of you. Is there a one sort of pressing issue that you're most worried about at the moment, Chris?
Chris Garland I think the biggest one for me at the moment is obviously going to be the cost of fuel. So the way I run my businesses, we have a training venue where people can come to us, but it makes a lot of sense for a lot of our clients where one trainer goes to their facility and trains a number of their staff. So that's obviously putting the cost burden of fuel onto me. So I need to get to them. Now, obviously, the obvious answer is your cost into the price. However, with the fluctuations of fuel at the moment, you know, you can put a quote out. And then 30 days later, the fuel costs have gone up massively. So the big difference for me at the moment, is obviously getting out to clients, you know, and also pricing it accordingly for the client so that, you know, I'm not pressing myself out of market. So yeah, I would say fuel is the biggest one at the moment. Not to mention the cost of running the office. The electrical costs, and running the IT as well.
Jon Watkins Yeah, brilliant. And, Julianne, same same question to us. What was your biggest concern going forward? Is there some some support you'd like to see from government for it?
Julianne Ponan There are a couple of things. So R&D grants, I think, is a big, big thing that the government needs to understand; small businesses come up with the most innovation. However, if we don't have the research and development grants to be able to, so many small businesses are cutting back, us being one of them, we want to develop things that are specifically catering for top 14, a market that is really needed. However, we just don't have the cash to be able to invest in it consistently. And then my other thing would be talent. It's really difficult to get the right talent into your business. And I'm sure many people will say it's like, you just have to sift through so many people have, I think, if the government helps with this, and really nurture people from education into the options that they have outside of education, into apprenticeship schemes; we've had apprentices and now they're in full time roles, which is fantastic to see. But at the same time giving that incentive to small businesses, you need to support them. We can't do all the work ourselves. Having great training providers, and, and, and more funding, because a lot of the funding was taken away when Brexit happened. So I think that would be my main call outs for for the government at the moment.
Jon Watkins Yeah, that's a good one. Dave, same question to you.
David Griffiths The biggest pressure just now to be honest, is VAT. Just straight up, it shouldn't be at 20% in my opinion, for hospitality businesses. It obviously went down during Covid which is great. But it's just really, really tough. And it's, there's been some kind of some really kind of tough decisions that have had to be made along the way. And then it's normally when when VAT's that high, I think it does throttle a lot of small businesses. As soon as you get past that threshold, becomes pretty daunting for a lot of people. And I've kind of recognised with as we've gone along the way, that's been one of the things that keeps getting mentioned as reasons for people kind of packing in and just kind of going 'it's just not worth it'. I mean, even like 5% could mean a lot to some businesses. That's kind of one of the main ones, but also the price rises in ingredients is is incredible. Obviously, there's there's lots of reasons for that. But it does get tougher every week. And yeah, it's just about kind of fighting your way through, I think. And also as well, we're quite blessed with where we are that we we do a lot of in-house trade for food businesses. Typically they operate on delivery systems. And a lot of the general public aren't aware that the delivery platforms, they take upwards of 25% to 35%, sometimes 39% of gross revenue, and people don't realise that and people then kind of give the business a lot of heat online for having to be more expensive, but you can't put 25% to 39% on top of the cost of a burger, it's impossible. And you can add a bit on to try and absorb some of that cost. But ultimately, I think that the one of the biggest struggles there is any outlets that have minimal in house area because they can't afford big square footage place and they try and get somewhere under the rates threshold. And then they realise that they're mainly takeaway or Deliveroo or Just East or Uber Eats. And then if predominantly the delivery streams is where their businesses coming through, in the in the kind of food and beverage sector, then they've really really struggled to actually make any margin at the end of it. Like when we look at just the percentage our our delivery, our net rate at the very end, it's so small, it's really not worthwhile. So we focus on the in house. So luckily we serve into four neighbouring, really busy bars in Aberdeen, we're in a busy bar in Glasgow. And that's why we we've been investing in our mobile food trucks because they can help us explore other areas. But also, they're not delivery. And we we get to keep our income that we make from those food trucks, which is so important to help in the business, continue to not just survive, but thrive as well. So I think those are the kind of key factors that really put the pressure on week to week for us.
Jon Watkins Brilliant. Thank you guys. It's really interesting. And thank you so much for sharing your stories with us. That brings us to the end of this episode of the FSB podcasts. And I'd like to thank Dave, Chris and Julianne for sharing their stories with us. I'd also like to thank you, the audience for listening to this episode. And to remind you that you can subscribe to the FSB podcasts, to receive regular updates and guidance on the big issues affecting small businesses. And do please also remember that you can find a whole host of additional webinars, podcasts and other content at the FSB website which is fsb.org.uk Many thanks guys.
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