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sodass View Drop Down
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  Quote sodass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2007 at 12:24pm
I paid a licence last year for background music, for my restaurant, £300.!!!
It has come up for renewal and I am being harrased by PRS to renew, despite having purchased royalty free music and only playing that. I have threatened them with legal action should they continue to badger me
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Honky Tonk View Drop Down
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  Quote Honky Tonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2007 at 5:51pm

I will certainly be interested to know if you got a reply from them, and with regards to the letter – mine I received from them is different to yours but still has anomalies on it:-

 

The ‘logo’ at the top of the page in the middle means nothing and looks as though it has been scanned from a box of Belgian chocolates.  Also the phone number you have to call has been crudely, and manually, pasted in as it is a different font altogether!  And the signature at the bottom of the letter has also been cut and pasted over the signatory’s details.

 

Utter crap, and all together a poorly put together scam letter.

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sodas View Drop Down
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  Quote sodas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2007 at 4:52pm
Guess what, they have sent me a bill for£280, despite them having been told I am not playing any copyright music. Sending it right back. What a hateful shower of individuals!
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sodas View Drop Down
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  Quote sodas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2007 at 8:23pm
If we get the might of the FSB members behind us to respond to" these tyrants", then perhaps a society i.e.PRS, who call themselves "non profit making", and who appear to have so many staff to harass people, probably spending so much in phone communications and postage and obviously huge wage bills, can eventually be brought to task for their "bully boy tactics" Who pays the wage bill, postage, printing, et al, to the staff?
Funny is it not, that when I attemted to call them, I was given the options of which digit I wished to press, that after 20 mins of "on hold" that their was no music at all!!!!
Please support me in this most SHOCKING "Society"
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  Quote fullstretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2007 at 8:46pm
as a newbie to this forum,  i have been reading this with interest. i run a limousine company and the PRS have been in touch regarding having a licence for music and dvds that are played in my cars.  because we use both cd's and dvds they want two seperate fees. total around 500 . its not just shops etc that are affected by this issue.
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  Quote Earplugs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2007 at 2:29pm
We’ve just about had enough of this, too. We run a guest house and, having been approached by the PPL a few years ago, have opted not to play radios or background music in our “public spaces”. However, we do have a TV in every room, for which we pay a block TV licence to the Government. End of story!

Oh no! Now, like Honky Tonk, we have been told that we need to licence the place because our guests hear copyrighted music through advertisements and studio signature tunes etc. Incredible, isn’t it? As if they haven’t already been paid several times over by the advertisers and the TV/radio stations. We too have been bombarded with telephone calls, leaflets and iffy letters. However, it may seem like a scam but one thing is certain, the PRS are a legitimate outfit.

We sought legal advice to ask specifically whether we are legally obliged to accede to these demands. We were told that we are not! All of this is down to PRS’s interpretation of the 1988 Copyright Act and that their claim is as yet untried in law, mainly because nobody has gone to court over it, so there is no legal precedent. We were told that there had been a court case pending but that someone had backed down. We got the impression it wasn’t the PRS.

We agree that this is a case for the FSB. We can’t each defend ourselves individually against this sort of intimidation. The PRS is an organisation similar to the FSB in that it represents individuals’ business interests - so it seems entirely appropriate that we should respond in kind.
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  Quote charlieh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2007 at 7:31pm
BTW, having relented and agreed to pay they sent me an invoice which I promptly forgot about, I received a letter threatening legal action over non-payment only two weeks later.
 
They really are a thoroughly nasty bunch, I really think it's time the FSB got onto this.
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  Quote stairman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2007 at 7:50pm
Originally posted by Earplugs

...........We agree that this is a case for the FSB. We can’t each defend ourselves individually against this sort of intimidation. The PRS is an organisation similar to the FSB in that it represents individuals’ business interests - so it seems entirely appropriate that we should respond in kind.


Before we shout for the FSB to fund a defence I think we should clarify what is to be defended

I think along the following lines
exempt where a broadcaster has paid a licence
1, employees listening to broadcast material
2, paying guests listening in the room they are staying in
3, reception areas the employee should be allowed to listen as long as it is just below the level of normal conversation (e.g. don't need to turn it down to hear some one speak, and the speaker to be within 600mm of work area)

the requirement for a PRS licence should be based on the supply of music to customers of businesses as the business is using it to gain custom ( with the exception of 2 above)


Gordon Moir
Stairs By Design Ltd
Aberdeen
N E Scotland Region
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fullstretch View Drop Down
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  Quote fullstretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2007 at 8:42pm
i agree in principle to the above suggestions, but they dont seem to take acount of the thousands of businesses that are being asked to licence a moving vehicle. if it s done on the basis that the public can 'overhear' the nusic then almost every teenager with a car should be made to pay. could the criteria be expanded to take acount of taxi's and limos etc.
Karl
www.fullstretchlimos.co.uk
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  Quote stairman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2007 at 9:44pm
Hi fullstretch

Sorry but while carrying members of the public I think a PRS licence should be required
But only one licence not one for CD another for DVD ect
Gordon Moir
Stairs By Design Ltd
Aberdeen
N E Scotland Region
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sodas View Drop Down
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  Quote sodas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2007 at 7:24pm
Well, guess what they have done to me now? They have sent me an email to say that they do not recognise whom I have bought the copyright free music from and that they are going to pursue "the debt". The firm I bought it from are brilliant, it is completely free of copyright, and the music is lovely. If anyone wishes to know where I got it, I will be happy to let them know.
I now intend to phone solicitor through FSB and ask if they will support me in a harrassment action
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2007 at 9:49pm
Sodas, these rip-off merchants don't have a leg to stand on.

The only legal power they have is to collect royalty payments for their OWN clients.
Whether or not they 'recognise' the firm who supplies your copyright-free music is totally irrelevant.

Tell them where to stick their demands.

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sodas View Drop Down
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  Quote sodas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2007 at 2:30pm
Just received a call conceeding that my music, is royalty and copyright free and they are going to cancel my need for holding their licence
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2007 at 8:36pm
ADVERTSING POST DELETED !!
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  Quote Dysey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2007 at 7:19pm
Hi all! Another new member logging on and having a look to see what problems people have had with this wonderful society. Seems to be many! We are now also being harrassed with nasty and bullying calls from PRS trying to extort money. We were plagued by them in July when we refused to renew the Music Licence because they had doubled the price to £175 and couldn't justify why, or how they set their figures. We run a guesthouse and had to remove the radios from rooms, and the hifi from the breakfast room which we only played for half an hour during breakfast time. We confirmed this in writing and all seemed well - licence cancelled.
 
Six months later we are being hounded with awful calls from them saying we must pay for the TVs in the rooms or remove them. Again we have refused to pay for them as it is not a "legal requirement" for us to hold a Licence for TVs. I understand that PRS are trying to get this passed through parliament at the moment, but it is not law yet. Everytime we say this they back down somewhat but still send us an invoice. Surely if it is not law yet, these people cannot constantly ring and bully people into paying money they effectively do not owe. How can we stop these calls? Are they trained to be so nasty? We keep hanging up when they become abusive, but they just ring back. The PRS website is useless and vague about what is a legal requirement and how they set their fees. I know there are a lot of businesses out there who are just paying up to get these people off their backs. If the PRS is a charitable organisation, I'd hate to see a heavy handed one!!!!!Wink
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Hawk View Drop Down
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  Quote Hawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2007 at 8:45pm
As an FSB member check in with the FSB Legal Help Line on this one.
I have spoken with them on similar matters and I found their advice, and the notes they send out, very useful.


Alien visitor
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Easter View Drop Down
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  Quote Easter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2007 at 12:37pm

I have just found this on 'the accommodation know-how' site (The pink booklet)

Is a licence required for copyright music in customers' rooms?

While there has been agreement that a PRS licence is required for places such as dining rooms, lounges and bars, hotels have long maintained that the provision of TV sets, radios, etc in customers’ rooms are exempt from the requirement because hotel rooms are private, rather than public spaces. The PRS do not agree with this interpretation and there has been something of a stand-off between the PRS and the British Hospitality Association on this issue.

However, on 7th December 2006 the European Court of Justice ruled that the distribution of a signal by the means of television sets by a hotel to customers staying in its rooms, whatever technique is used to transmit the signal, constituted communication to the public within the meaning of Article 3(1) of the European Directive on the “harmonisation of certain aspects of copyright and related rights in the information society”.

The Court felt that the private nature of hotel rooms did not preclude the communication of a work by means of television sets from constituting “communication to the public” within the meaning of Article 3(1) of Directive.

On the basis of this ruling it seems that the PRS are now renewing efforts to make UK accommodation providers obtain a licence for playing copyright material in guests’ rooms.

Interestingly, the ECJ ruled that the provision of physical facilities for playing copyright material in guests’ rooms did not amount to communication. Rather it was the distribution of the signal that amounted to the breach of copyright. Therefore, if the accommodation provider does not distribute the signal (ie the TV receives its signal direct from the transmitter), it may be possible to mount an argument that the Directive has not been breached and that a PRS licence is still not required.

Further information on obtaining a licence, along with a list of licence tariffs is available from the PRS (see Further Guidance below). If a licence is required, the PRS has a hotel and restaurant tariff with a separate section for small residential hotels (up to 15 rooms with facilities restricted to overnight guests). The list of tariffs includes the use of:

  • background music and TV/radio systems in public areas, eg foyers, bars and corridors
  • live music
  • discos and karaoke machines.

The use of TVs and radios in guests' bedrooms is covered by these tariffs too, although their inclusion is being disputed by the British Hospitality Association who believe that a guest's bedroom should not be regarded as a public area and subject to licensing requirements (see Is a licence required for copyright music in customers' rooms? above).

Note! You are required by law to obtain a licence if you need one. If you apply for a licence before you start playing copyright music in a public place, you will be charged a standard rate. If you apply later, or are caught playing music without a licence, you will be charged a higher rate for the first year of the licence.

Regards

Easter

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Steve red View Drop Down
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  Quote Steve red Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2007 at 4:13pm
like to know the name of that company that you get copyright free music from so I could use them in my restaurant
steve red
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Steve red View Drop Down
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  Quote Steve red Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2007 at 4:15pm
like to know the name of the company who do copyright free music
steve red
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2008 at 11:36am
Further to my earier post back in November, we wrote to the Glasgow address and the London address of PRS ,the Glasgow one did not exist , but the London office has now written to us acknowledging our right not to have to give them our credit card details and are sending us an invoice. Strangely enough there is now a message on the PRS website from mid December saying that they will no longer be asking for credit card payments due to some scammer calling people claiming to be the PRS and demanding credit card details. They say that they always write to people before they call and their number is always available.
 
So it would appear that there has been a scam going on and I would bet that some people have paid the bogus outfit thinking they are the PRS. the bad news is that the real PRS are demanding money and apparently are entitled to it , our cost is £305.00 which we have now paid, its irritating , we do not agree with it, but some idiot allowed it to become law.   
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